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Shaft Drive Improvements

Discussion in 'R1200RS Tech and Performance Chat' started by duccrazydave, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. duccrazydave

    duccrazydave Member

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    Just wondering if the earlier ('15-16) models could be retrofitted with the new shaft drive damper that's apparently improved the N to 1st engagement clunk.
     
  2. Jeroen1969

    Jeroen1969 Well-Known Member

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    I believe that is possible, but very very costly. As the shaft drive damper is integrated in the gear box that, in turn, is integrated in the engine. The newer gear box is a bit longer, because of that shaft drive damper, there for the starter motor in the newer bikes has been made a tad smaller. To make the new gear box with integrated shaft drive damper fit, you would also need a new starter motor. I heard rumors the parts cost about €1.000,- sounds almost as doable . . . the financial pain is in the labour, to replace the gear box, the mechanic will need a few days...
    I now have a newer 2017 RS as my 2015 RS had a problem in the GASP that could not be solved and can tell you this: yes, the shaft drive damper does do something. However in my opinion it is not worth spending thousands of euro's, pounds or dollars on. It's cheaper to trade in the bike for a newer one and get ABS Pro and Dynamic Brake light as a bonus and even Hill Start Control could be an option (retrofittable by the way on all RS's I believe, at least it is on my 2017 model and I will have it done sometime next year).
     
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  3. Richard230

    Richard230 Well-Known Member Contributor

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    Other then the initial "clunk" when shifting into first gear from neutral after the oil warms up, my 2016 RS shifts just fine. A shaft drive damper is nice but I don't think it is worth discarding an otherwise great motorcycle for a new RS. (Although I bet BMW would just love you to do that. ;) )
     
  4. Duckbubbles

    Duckbubbles Active Member

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    Not only the initial clunk, but the 1-2 shift using GSAP is much improved on the '17- but as you said, not really worth getting off of a '15/'16 for that. Out of a developed habit, I still use the clutch on 50+% of the 1-2 shifts and I can still do better 1-2 shifts manually.

    Frank
     
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  5. boxter

    boxter Active Member

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    The gear selectors are different on the 17 too, its the selectors that improve the change, the shaft damper just stops the snitch snatch you get when in lower gears when putting power on then off then on again.

    Ged
     
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  6. duccrazydave

    duccrazydave Member

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    Thanks for the education gents! The clunk down to first is just a minor thing. I had a habit of selecting N at long waiting intersections with my dry clutch Ducati to preserve the release bearing. Now I’m super comfortable with my RS, I use the GSAP up and down 1st- 6th. Short shifting from 1-2 is the trick for me
     
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  7. Leon.P.

    Leon.P. Well-Known Member

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    You are right on Dave. Short shift into 2nd and life is good. Yes it does clunk into 1st but so do lots of other bikes. What gear box problems??:):)
     
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  8. darrell

    darrell Well-Known Member Contributor

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    I'm pretty certain what you are talking about when you say short shift but would you be willing to start a thread that explains in detail exactly how you do it?
     
  9. duccrazydave

    duccrazydave Member

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    I'll jump in with a quick reply before I head to work:confused:. This is a "normal" start, not accelerating hard at all. When I take off I shift into 2nd almost right away. Especially when I'm two up. Makes it just as smooth as the rest of the shifts
     
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  10. Leon.P.

    Leon.P. Well-Known Member

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    This has been spoken about previously but I'm happy to explain it to you and others who would like to know what Short Shifting means. I shift into 2nd very early under gentle acceleration. So what I mean is this. Use 1st gear to start the bike moving and as soon as that has been achieved ( somewhere between 10-15 Kph ) change into 2nd under gentle acceleration(minimal throttle) and that under most situations gets rid of the thump into 2nd which is handy when you have a pillion. It needs lots of practice. This engine having so much torque is tricky from 1st into 2nd. Much easier on a high revving engine. Good luck.
     
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  11. darrell

    darrell Well-Known Member Contributor

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    Thanks. So no blimping the throttle as I was thinking. I'll try it today after picking up my bike from its 50,000 mile service.
     
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  12. Phillo

    Phillo Active Member

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    A lot of people carry on ad nauseam about the neutral to 1st clunk on the RS as if this was something peculiar to or bad design on the RS...every wet clutch bike I've ever had clunks from neutral to 1st the only difference being between chain and shaft drive where the shaft drive bikes clunk is more noticeable due to there being the minimum of play between clutch and final drive as opposed to the slack on a chain driven bike. There are extremely easy ways to avoid the clunk..one is starting in neutral with the clutch lever pulled in equates to no clunk when selecting 1st..or start with 1st gear engaged and clutch in...very very simple...really !!!!
     
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  13. duccrazydave

    duccrazydave Member

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    Thanks Phillo! You’ve described my concern with the clunk, perfectly. I’ve only ever had chain drive bikes before my RS.
     
  14. boxter

    boxter Active Member

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    Shaft drive bikes tend to have more slack than a well adjusted chain, gear selection especially stationary is difficult without the slack with a shaft drive.
    As the gear is engaged the slack is taken up and as it comes to the end of the slack it is stopped with a jolt, thus the noise and the crunch when you put in first, if BMW had got rid of the slack in the transmission it would engage with less crunch but would be hard to get it to engage, thus why there is a great improvement on the 17 model with the drive damper to cushion the slack/ drive.


    Ged
     
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  15. Jeroen1969

    Jeroen1969 Well-Known Member

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    I hardly ever use the clutch when the bike is not going at speeds below which I can't keep her straight up without having my feet on the floor. The 1st to 2nd is less critical with the new gear box indeed, I did manage to find the "sweet spot" on my 2015 machine (further up in this thread described as "short shift", so after the bike has just gaine a bit speed, RPM around 1750 to 2000 with just a tad thrust on). But that 2015 Lupin one had the nasty habit of getting in to neutral rather than second when shifting down from 3rd. My current bike can do ALL shift movements using the GASP apart from Neutral to 1st when in standstill. But I can even get in to Neutral when I pull up and shift up not firmly enough (as it sometimes happens to do on my R1200RT using the clutch), likewise, I can use the GASP to get in to Neutral going down from 2nd gear.
    On rare occasions, when I ignore the "Shift Up Advise Arrow" (that I have enabled, default it is disabled) and have a tad too little throttle on, it does a jumpy shift movement. When I stick to the rules as laid out in the manual, it does smooth shift movements only. I'm not riding in those more challenging conditions that require the use of clutch as mentioned in the manual should be the case for roughly 25% of the shift movements...

    That said, I also must admit I still use the clutch for just under 50% of all my shift movements . . . but that is mainly because around 40% of my rides is on my R1200RT from 2010 that does not have GASP....
     
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  16. Duckbubbles

    Duckbubbles Active Member

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    Not so long ago, on my '16 RS sitting next to my riding buddy on his '14 FJR at a traffic light, I purposely paid attention to what happened when we both shifted into 1st. The "noise" was equal as far as I could tell. I don't know if the FJR forum is riddled with noisy engagement posts.
    My '85 K has what I call "stealth" engagement.

    Frank
     
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  17. MrVvrroomm

    MrVvrroomm Well-Known Member

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    I've owned 2 Gen1 FJR's. Both of them clunked into 1st gear. There is no difference in the amount of clunk in either of our two RS's. It's a non-issue to me.
     
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  18. Nordicmike

    Nordicmike New Member

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    I got my 2017 in April and the only thing i don't like is the gearbox. No clunk into first when cold but when warm heavy clunk.
    Changing up from 1st to second and third is also very clunky/noisy using clutch. From 4-6 nice and smooth all while using clutch. Assist pro is only good from 4-6 at high revs.
    Haven't ridden an earlier model so can't compare unfortunately. But even my previous Diavel had a silky smooth gear change compared to the RS. Apart from that i think it's great.
     
  19. Willy

    Willy Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you should have the gearbox checked out, my '16 RS gearbox is lovely and smooth, GASP changes very smooth 1-6 and 6-2, I can do GASP shift 2-1 but only when going very slowly, I usually use the clutch in this case as it is when I am preparing to stop anyway. As mentioned above the 'clunk' into first on mine isn't any different to the other bikes I've owned, perfectly normal! Yours may be a timing/set-up issue as the GASP momentarily cuts the ignition as you change up a gear.
     
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  20. boxter

    boxter Active Member

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    Even though you bought the rs in April I think your bike ( if the one in the picture ) may be a 2016 bike.
    2017 bike would have gold calipers, red frame I think, also I think they dropped the loopin blue.
    The 2017 gearbox after the changes is really smooth in changing, where the 2016 bike was less than perfect, I have owned both, and although there is variations, the owners of 2017 models are mostly agreed the box is slick.


    Ged
     

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