No customization options are available.

Long term ownership? Should I trade in at 36Kmiles or keep to 100k+?

Discussion in 'General R1200RS Discussions' started by Dejocko, Mar 2, 2018.

  1. Dejocko

    Dejocko Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Let me start out by saying a few things.

    ***Warning long read but I'm relatively young and never had any role models when it comes to making good financial decisions or motorcycle ownership. I need your help****

    1. I am by no means rich but I can afford responsible motorcycle ownership but I'm not experienced and I want to make the best financial and the best decision that protects my physical safety.

    2. I am not capable of working on my own motorcycles

    3. I love the RS, it's literally the perfect single motorcycle to do it all (on pavement) solution that checks all the boxes for me with the exception of some leg room issues (being 6'5" with a 36" inseam)

    4. I can't help but want more power.

    5. I can't help but want more leg room.

    I dont believe those two things are available together except on the XR or Multistrada (or maybe the new Tiger 1200) but I really really don't want to deal with chain drive again as the motorcycle is my only vehicle. The combination of my lack of understanding of how to adjust and the tediousness (OCD) of constantly cleaning a chain drive, makes me a bad chain driven motorcycle owner.....but I really really love the XR and Multistrada.

    All that being said....

    This is my first motorcycle where I am tasked with the financial decision of keeping it long term and I have absolutely no clue what to expect after the warranty runs out.

    Let's ignore the fact that my legs day dream constantly of owning a XR, Pikes Peak Multistrada, or GSA... and my genitals yearn for the KTM Super Duke R...

    What should I expect if I choose to keep the RS (or any motorcycle) past manufacturers warranty period?

    I have had the RS 15 months and I'm at 16k miles. So I'll easily get to 36K miles by the end of 36 months and fully utilize the warranty period.

    It's my understanding that I should at the very least expect to replace the entire suspension at 36k miles and from what I read that's a hefty ~$3k (including labor) investment. That in my mind and due to my limited resources would necessitate committing to the bike at least until 72K miles which would be 6 years old on my current path.

    And what then? What other mechanical issues are likely to come up (outside of regular maintenance) out of warranty between 36k-72k miles all while making a $372 a month payment (including GPS and side cases [until November 2021 or roughly 60K miles])

    Is it more likely that I will completely fuck myself over financially (between depreciation and not having a warranty) by committing to have a six year old Motorcycle with 72K miles?

    I am at a place financially where I could theoretically pay off or nearly pay off the balance by the time the warranty expires (but I need to make the decision to get on that track soon) and trade in value would be around $8-$10k in November 2019. I could use that $8-$10k trade in as a hefty down payment towards a new bike with a fresh warranty. I was thinking the idea of staying on track to continuously finance motorcycles for the duration of their manufacturers warranty or manufacturers extended warranty with a huge down payment from the the trade in value of a 3 year old motorcycle could be a solid financial decision.

    Then I'm stuck perpetually with a motorcycle payment, and hell...maybe it would be better to keep it to 72k+ miles financially? Maybe I'm underestimating the life of motorcycle parts?

    I just can not figure out how to base my decision and find the "breaking point".

    A separate concern I briefly mentioned at the beginning of this long diatribe is my own physical safety. I am concerned as the bike ages at the increased risk of mechanical failure while riding aggressively causing me to wreck for any number of possible reasons.

    My wife hates the idea of continuously having a motorcycle payment and (on some level I agree but have a sneaking suspicion that while it's true for cars it may not be the case with motorcycles) thinks it would be better to keep a motorcycle long term. I've countered that labor and parts (especially the inevitable suspension work) coupled with depreciation makes a 3 year pay off-trade in routine a more secure financial decision but we are young (35 and 27) and don't know enough about motorcycles to make the right decision without input from you old farts! ;)

    Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated!
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
    Scorch likes this.
  2. Grumpy Goat

    Grumpy Goat Well-Known Member Contributor

    Messages:
    3,983
    Likes Received:
    2,527
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well written post. :)

    One thing I did not get was whether you are willing to invest the time to learn how to do some basic maintenance work on the bike ...?
     
    folagana likes this.
  3. Leon.P.

    Leon.P. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,153
    Likes Received:
    550
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Old Farts. That's nice that is. No input from me LOL.:) Not sure what you should do. Being here down under the rules can be different.Good luck with your dilemma .
     
    Stick Rockwell and ray2 like this.
  4. Aussie Import

    Aussie Import Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,884
    Likes Received:
    1,965
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I keep my bikes a long time, the R11S had a 15 year tenure with me - the longest ever.
    The S was a great bike. The RS is much better.
    IMO you begin to fit the bike, same as your new shoes become comfortable with wear.
    I have chatted with riders who have high mileage on less well made units than BMW. One had a Suzuki RF900 with well over 300,000 klm and more than 10 years. It ran well and he used it daily.
    Modern bikes are well made, with good materials. Take care of it, and it will outlast you.
    Learn to do your own maintenance. Read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. No kidding.
    The more you learn, the happier you will be. Understanding brings contentment .
     
    fischetg, ray2 and PaulB_UK like this.
  5. DABs

    DABs Active Member

    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    221
    Trophy Points:
    43
    1) You have not yet decided the RS is the keeper. You want to try others.
    2) You are not willing to learn to understand and maintain a bike.
    3) You are willing to fund motorcycle ownership on a rolling 3+ year warrantied basis;
    4) your wife isn't.

    Only you can judge the penalties of defying #4 .......

    Dave
     
    Leon.P., ray2 and Dave like this.
  6. boxerboy

    boxerboy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    578
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Wow, this really is an insight into the younger mind (no offence Dejocko), I have never attached much connection between the length of ownership and the period of a motorcycle's warranty. In my mind the warranty is just a security in respect of manufacturing defects, which should reasonably become evident during the first 2 years of ownership. Parts do not wear out at the end of a warranty though clearly they do deteriorate over time. Maintenance (workshop or own endeavour) is key to longevity. If you can afford the depreciation of a new motorcycle then I'd argue you can also afford the maintenance costs even if you use a workshop. As I wrote in another post , personally I'd rather self insure (save the money and ensure its available) to deal with any future faults than pay for an extended warranty, an easy decision as I am not reliant on the bike for transport. I have a 1981 R100RS that I have owned now for 33 years, its still reliable and has rarely broken down whilst travelling (once the rear wheel bearings collapsed and once a throttle cable broke). I agree with Aussie Import that you tend to fit to a bike over time, that's a good reason to identify and maintain a keeper, but surely that has to be balanced against the pleasure of a new machine from time to time. That is unless you are cash rich and have a large garage - the dream scenario for building a collection!
    Good luck Dejocko in making a choice you are comfortable with and not having to manage your angst. (By the way I really sympathise with the 36" inseam , I struggle with 34", I hope you have better flexibility in your hips than I do!)
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
    Dejocko and Dave like this.
  7. Dave

    Dave Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    843
    Likes Received:
    473
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I have been on the 'two bike' ownership route since the 2005 R1200st I still have (only 35,000miles) but that has 'cost me' servicing, tyres batteries, etc, one replacement fuel regulator control £200apprx, one faulty, rusty rear bevel swing arm bearing which I did remove but main dealer did press in the new bearing which only failed because the dust seal let water in. It cost around £8/10,000 new, I can't remember but it now owes me nothing. Even when/if it need the unreliable original power brake unit needs replacement, according to the doom merchants. I do get fluid changed every two years, but £2/3000 abs unit cost will still be less than the following 2nd bike route I also took:-
    2nd bike bike (another keeper!) 2007 R1200S sport Ohlins/sport wheel wasted money on grill, radiator protectors, huggers, mudguard extenders etc.
    replace that with R1200R 2013, again hugger, extender, panniers rails etc.
    replace that with R1200RS 2015 - hugger again, panniers topbox, avg guard
    replace that with R1200RS 2017 - as above but did keep panniers, top box etc.
    Now......... how much more I spent on the 2nd bikes for the mileage -S 7,000miles, R 6,000miles, RS 8,000 miles and current RS only 5,000 miles on less in total than my original ST I will refuse to add here (5th amendment!) but it was more than running the ST would have been for the extra miles.
    The choice will depend on how you use your bike rather than the mileage you use it for. Most of the 35,000 on my ST was commuting 40 miles to work, always waited for a warm engine, tyres lasted 10,000 miles a pair, and I always did a pre-winter oil change. Main dealer service until I retired 5 years ago but now 'home service' since it is basic oil/air filter and oil - at least I get to play with my torque wrenches.
    If an owner lacks mechanical sympathy then of course wear and tear would be greater but 100,000 miles should not be an issue.
    I also got to the point that keeping one of the new 2nd bikes and getting an old bike to work on happened naturally, I now have a 13 year old bike I know the history of which I am safe to use. Hindsight is wonderful, running just the ST and keeping a savings fund would have been the financial decision but where's the fun in that?
    I thought the first RS was a keeper, new version of the ST, but then I got the 2017 RS, whether it was worth the extra outlay I doubt it.
    All the money spent on updating, replacing a perfectly good bike might have been better being saved for the 'failure fund' on the first bike who knows if it would be right for anyone/everyone?
     
    Leon.P., boxerboy and Dejocko like this.
  8. Dejocko

    Dejocko Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Honestly I am not, almost completely due to my paranoias and the fact it's my only vehicle.
     
  9. Dejocko

    Dejocko Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    18
    An excellent summary of the situation!

    I really am happy with the RS though, but honestly it's kind of depressing knowing you have no valid reason to change to another motorcycle so I guess maybe I am excessively weighting my concerns from a mechanical aspect to justify new bikes every three years.
     
  10. Dejocko

    Dejocko Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    18
    About a month ago I started a hip /upper leg stretching routine for the sole purpose of increasing my comfort at the end of a 500mile day or aggressive knee dragging for a few hours.

    It has helped immensely! I still have a ways to go and room to improve on my flexibility but it's gone a long way. I've gotten lazy about it the last week...I was doing it twice a day now it's about 4 times a week.

    I also recently figured out how to use my engine bars as leg rests... imagine a 6'5" giant in full race leathers with legs up on engine bars like a cruiser...I'm sure I get lots of laughs on the straight parts with my long legs sticking out past the nose of the motorcycle...but damn it feels good to be a gangsta.:D
     
    boxerboy likes this.
  11. Stef

    Stef Active Member

    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    155
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Seems to me this is a problem for a shrink instead of a motorcylce forum... :)
     
    ray2, stuart2820, boxerboy and 3 others like this.
  12. Dejocko

    Dejocko Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I really am curious how many of you that make it past 36k miles on a motorcycle have found it necessary to replace the suspension at that point?
     
    Jim Evans likes this.
  13. TPadden

    TPadden Active Member

    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    106
    Trophy Points:
    43
    The not so new but "improved" Triumph Tiger 1200 (Explorer) has never had a chain and has more leg room; take one for a test ride.


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  14. Dejocko

    Dejocko Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Yep I know which is why it's near the top of my list as a potential replacement down the road but according to cycle-ergo.com the leg room isn't much of an improvement. I have the sport seat and helibar risers on the RS. So I would realistically only be gaining 4degrees of hip angle improvement.

    I also think I would prefer to stick with a 17" front and rear wheel for access to sportier tires.
     
  15. TPadden

    TPadden Active Member

    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    106
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Not sure why the long post then. Keep the BMW until you find something better fitting your needs or that you want more. :D

    Realize at 36K your bike is just broken-in, and whether you do maintenance or not you can just ride it changing oil and tires until something breaks; just getting what broke fixed. Preventative Maintenance on modern machines is grossly over-rated in my humble opinion.
     
  16. stuart2820

    stuart2820 Active Member

    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    216
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I'm out of warranty now myself and I have to admit to the odd nagging concern of cataclysmic motorcycle failure and how I'd cope with that.

    My own view is it's not worth stressing over, if it happens it happens. The enjoyment and elation even, which I still feel on owning and riding such a fine machine in the here and now far outweighs any imagined fears.

    Besides which, self-fulfilling prophesies are an actual thing!

    Philosophically speaking,according to Descartes 'you pays your money, you takes your choice' Don't second-guess yourself to the point of inertia and don't let worry prevent you from enjoying the good stuff along the way. Doom-mongerers get the satisfaction of saying I told you so but they're boring bastards all the same.

    Like others have stated, hopefully regular maintenance will assuage fears of impending doom.

    I'm six foot six myself, albeit with a 34in leg and with the tall seat in-situ, I love the sporty ergos on this bike which are otherwise damn nigh impossible for people like us on sport bikes; and like you said it's the closest single do-it-all machine. By terms of reference I found the multistrada's bucket seat uncomfortable and the XR felt nowhere near as accomplished a machine.

    I get where you're coming from with the Super Duke mind you and that's why I refuse to test ride the beastie.

    Personally, I'd like to hang on a while longer and see what this new 1260 boxer engine will be like in the RS when they get round to it!
     
    Jim Evans and Dejocko like this.
  17. GordonH

    GordonH Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    623
    Likes Received:
    548
    Trophy Points:
    93
    my very quick gut reaction and advice (assuming you don't want to keep spending on shiny new bikes) :-

    - Keep it, learn to do the basic "consumable" servicing (oil, filers, pads, shaft fluid, brake fluids etc) and ride it to 100k.
    - Bikes (and cars) have never been so reliable....and at the same time treated as expendable "toys" by many. Modern engines and running gear will run for mega miles - there are plenty waterboxer bikes (GS/RS/R/RT) out there with over 100k on them....there are even more oilheads with much more on them.
    - Bikes are not complex (even modern BM's) - engine, wheels, brakes, frame and electrics and that's about it - - far easier to run as long termers than cars.
    - The w/c boxer "car park" is big enough to ensure that you will (for a long time to come) get access to plenty of O/E, aftermarket and used parts to keep your bike going on a budget - you will not need to spend 3k on new shocks......
    -Savour the sense of getting good use out of a quality piece of kit.....and building a patina of your own on the bike that reflects you journey with it.

    Alternatively, buy a 10 year old model with low miles for $/€/£2-3k, run it for 5 years and buy another...and another ....ad infinitum. I've done this for the last 40 years (RS is the first new bike I've bought since I was 16) and I have never had a major failure or financial disaster (this is probably the best option) and have been able to commute and tour all of Europe on them without worry.
     
    Scorch, ray2, boxerboy and 2 others like this.
  18. Brimstone Mahone

    Brimstone Mahone Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    363
    Likes Received:
    363
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ok, this is long...

    Per an earlier post from DABs:
    1) You have not yet decided the RS is the keeper. You want to try others.
    2) You are not willing to learn to understand and maintain a bike.
    3) You are willing to fund motorcycle ownership on a rolling 3+ year warrantied basis;
    4) your wife isn't.

    As DABs noted, the most important item is number 4. The rest are of little significance as far as living in the real world is concerned. ;)

    With that said, here are some thoughts - no real advice:

    Unlike most folks here, I have no issue at all with chain drives but I have no experience prior to 2015 with BMWs so I'm "late" to shaft drive. I agree with the advantage of virtually no routine maintenance. OTOH, it's heavier, less efficient, and more complex. IMO, modern chains on street bikes don't really require much attention compared to the days where we removed it every 1000 miles, soaked/cleaned it in solvent, blew it dry with compressed air, and dumped it it a pot of hot melted grease, wiped it down and reinstalled it. Modern X-ring chains on street bikes will easily last 15-20k miles with nothing more than an occasional shot of lube - takes less than 5 minutes. I've had the same X-ring chain on my Norton Commando with 17k miles on the chain and it still is within specs for wear. I'M NOT suggesting that you buy a chain drive over a shaft, just saying that if you like a particular bike, chain or shaft is not, IMO, a reason to buy/not buy. I bought the RS because I LIKED the RS. The fact that it had shaft drive was not a factor at all; it just happened to have shaft drive. SO, my advice is that if you like the XR better, buy the XR...or WHATEVER bike you like. Having the bike you WANT is the most important thing when buying one! :) I went to the BMW dealer planning to buy an XR (actually, the first time I went I was planning to buy an S1000RR to replace my Ducati 996 but common sense gradually took hold because we wanted to do more trips/carry some luggage) but I ended up preferring the RS over the XR - probably as much for it's appearance as anything else but I also didn't care for some engine vibration present in the XR.

    As far as wanting more power - I've been in the performance car/bike engine building/modification world for more years than I care to admit. For street use my advice is: FORGET about buying a vehicle and then modifying it to make more power; BUY the vehicle with the power you want. No bolt-on parts are going to make any noticeable power increase, despite the absurd claims that are often made for a muffler/pipes/other mod. For that matter, frequently aftermarket changes actually reduce useful power but that's another long series of stories from my past experience and there's no need to go into that here. Suffice to say, making any noticeable additional power requires serious work and doing it will generally reduce the PRACTICAL application of the power. You can increase the top end power but you will lose midrange power which is far more useful. So, again, I suggest if you really need more performance than an RS offers, buy a bike with more performance. For example, a Ducati Diavel weighs the same as the RS and has about 40HP more. It is a substantially more powerful and feels like it but it is a totally different sort of machine which may or may not appeal. It doesn't to me; it does to my wife...go figure. Yeah, it's a bit embarrassing that my wife rides a bike with 40+ more HP than mine but I taught her to ride so I can at least take pride in that! :)

    Re that, I have always been a sport bike rider and always felt that there was no such thing as too much power. BUT I have found that that no longer matters much to me on a practical basis. The RS seems to have plenty of power and, although it won't be keeping up with a Ducati Panagale V4, or even my old Ducati 996, it can do wheelies and otherwise act fairly hooligan-like if you choose to do that (and you leave it in "Dynamic" mode)!

    As others have suggested, it would be helpful to be able to do some of your own work though, TBH, nowadays that is less useful than it used to be because of the electronics now present on bikes. Pre the electronic era, there was nothing on a bike that a reasonable DIY mechanic couldn't repair/replace/rebuild. That is no longer true. Other than adjusting comfort items - handlebar control position, foot levers, etc, fluid changes and changing brake pads are about it without special equipment. On spoke/tube rims, anybody could install a new tire/tube with nothing but a pair of tire irons. Anybody could clean/adjust carbs/change jets/whatever. That is no longer the case. So you can't save the kind of money nowadays that a DIYer used to be able to save. Still, fluid changes are a lot cheaper if you DIY!

    As far as keeping long term...
    When I was young I went through bikes pretty quickly. One year I bought 3 new bikes in succession, selling the previous 2. I said I was young; I didn't say I was smart! ;) I always wanted the latest, greatest, highest HP machine that I could afford. Nowadays, I tend to keep bikes for quite a few years and I cannot see any reason that my '16 RS would be replaced in the foreseeable future.
    There are plenty of modern bikes with over 100k miles on them that are doing just fine so the concern about reliability is, IMO, not a big issue. BUT, of course, regular maintenance/service is necessary, as it is on any vehicle. So that is something you have to budget for if you don't do any of it. But, given routine maintenance, modern bikes don't need replacing over concerns about reliability. So there is no reason to worry that you will have to replace the bike every couple of years for mechanical reasons. Personal reasons - "I want the new 'GoEvenFasterSuperCycle' " - well that's a different thing and can strike at any time!

    Good Luck!
     
    Leon.P., ray2, Grumpy Goat and 6 others like this.
  19. Ilan Balaban

    Ilan Balaban Member

    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    78
    Trophy Points:
    18
    If it is the budget you worried about then most likely the costs of maintaining a bike for the long run are lower then the costs of changing to a new bike every 2-3 years. The value loss on what you paid + the additional funds you will need to invest in a new bike (assuming similar new cost) will be higher. The money you save can be put aside as an insurance for catastrophic events if happen.

    As written above, bikes are fundamentally reliable and BMW (maybe not as Japanese bikes) is no different. Treat the bike well, don't neglect it, fresh oil, service on time and it will serve you for many years.

    That said, nothing beats getting a new bike :)
     
    Leon.P., stuart2820 and Jetpilot5 like this.
  20. Tony101

    Tony101 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    427
    Likes Received:
    264
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I'm not hugely worried by catastrophic component failure. The w/c boxers are now plentiful in their various guises and there seems to be plenty of people who are happy to wrap them round trees / cars / other immovable objects. Once my bike gets beyond it's third or fourth birthday, I have no problem with used components from a reliable breaker. Perhaps I'm just mean ................!
     

Share This Page