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Gear shift assist - not smooth downgearing when trying to gain power

Discussion in 'General R1200RS Discussions' started by Sterobman, Sep 26, 2017.

  1. boxerboy

    boxerboy Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, and as such this is not a good tool for shifting down whilst accelerating up hill. If you feel the need to downshift up a hill then the last thing you want to do is close the throttle - that means a manual gear change is required. (As per Peter's original answer).
     
  2. Peter Burridge

    Peter Burridge Well-Known Member Contributor

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    Interestingly the newer riders manual does say that you don't have to close the throttle going either up or down the box. This is for Shift Assist Pro. I think mine is just Shift Assist. I'm assuming that the Pro version both closes and then blips the throttle. My bike is a 2015. It seems possible there is two different systems.
     
  3. boxerboy

    boxerboy Well-Known Member

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    Ah, then that's a change I'm unaware of. Or, of which I'm unaware if you prefer.
     
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  4. Peter Burridge

    Peter Burridge Well-Known Member Contributor

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    I may be wrong as I think it's always been 'Pro' but it's operation seems to have changed over the past couple of years.
     
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  5. Bravo

    Bravo Plenty in the tank. Contributor

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    Which page? I had a look at the weekend couldn't see that .
     
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  6. Peter Burridge

    Peter Burridge Well-Known Member Contributor

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    You might have a later manual. The one I read online a moment ago (I'm at work) said you didn't need to close the throttle for down changes. Unlike my model.
     
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  7. Bravo

    Bravo Plenty in the tank. Contributor

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    That's exactly what mine says Peter,no need to close. Ray,Brimstone and myself had a mini discussion about it on another thread Saturday. Tried it didn't like it:)
     
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  8. Peter Burridge

    Peter Burridge Well-Known Member Contributor

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    I think it's just the newer models. There's no reason they can't add a function of closing the throttle and then blipping.
     
  9. Brimstone Mahone

    Brimstone Mahone Well-Known Member

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    WELLL....I didn't realize there was shift assist and shift assist Pro. I thought GASP was the "only" version. That seems to me to explain the difference as to why there are different experiences with how the shifter functions. Based on the way my '16 shifts, it must have assist pro though I wasn't aware at the time of purchase that there were different versions. I remember the sales guy saying it had "the latest gearshift assist" but that didn't register to me because, frankly, I didn't care about the option at all (I love it now) - but it was the last '16 RS they had at the time and it was fully optioned, and they offered it with a slight discount. In any case, it sounds like any RS can be modded by the dealer to have the latest version via a software update. I suppose you could do it at home...as soon as somebody pirates the softare/sells it on Ebay (If they haven't already)! :)
     
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  10. PeTe T

    PeTe T Active Member

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    So from what some are describing GSAP is not engaging when down-shifting to accelerate. You are simply executing an ordinary clutchless shift when you blip the throttle and snick it down.
     
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  11. Peter Burridge

    Peter Burridge Well-Known Member Contributor

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    I'll call my service manager today and ask about this and possible upgrading.
     
  12. Aussie Import

    Aussie Import Well-Known Member

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    I too have found the GASP to be very good for some things, and not much good for others. It is very good for quick acceleration. The problem is the RS is so fast, by the time you have done 2 or so shifts, the speed limit is in tatters. Here, speeding is (in the words of Law and Order SVU intro) an especially heinous offence. Clutchless downshifts are fine in coming to a gradual stop. Otherwise, I think the bike can let you know what it needs / likes. Just listen to it. The clutch is, in itself, a joy to use.
    I will make enquiries when the bike goes in for its service as to whether there are different programs.
     
  13. SauRoN

    SauRoN Well-Known Member

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    You can't ignore the manual's instructions and then expect a different result.

    You need to close the throttle for it to work properly. If you don't...it doesn't work as per the manual and your experience.

    No comment required, it is working properly and as designed.
     
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  14. Peter Burridge

    Peter Burridge Well-Known Member Contributor

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    As has been said above, it depends on which manual you read. Mine says close the throttle. The newer Riders Manual that I viewed online says it can be open.
     
  15. SauRoN

    SauRoN Well-Known Member

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    It does say "throttle plate closed" during downshifting and deceleration.

    But technically you are correct in that it doesn't specifically state you should do it. I guess it's one of those things that goes by assumption that you would normally close the throttle while shifting down if the GSAP wasn't there as someone else pointed out.

    I am surprised though in litigation America that it isn't far more specific in instruction.
     
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  16. SauRoN

    SauRoN Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I just checked the US and EU models and neither actually states to close it.

    In fact the Page 96 says very openly "The Pro shift assistant assists upshifts and downshifts without the rider having to disengage the clutch or close the throttle."

    Doesn't make any sense though and on the one occasion I down-shifted with cruise control on (so open throttle) it did work but far from correctly.

    Pretty sure it's meant to be closed, but I guess you can't argue with the manual. The bike says otherwise though as evidenced by the thread and my own experience.
     
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  17. Peter Burridge

    Peter Burridge Well-Known Member Contributor

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    The above is interesting. I checked my manual. I do have Shift Assist Pro after all, on my 2015 bike. So my thoughts that Pro was an upgraded system was bogus. Apologies for confusing.

    The above, and particularly the text in another part of the same manual is I believe slightly misleading but essentially correct. It says that in virtually all speed (read rpm) ranges there is no need to operate the clutch or the twist grip. Twist grip does not have to be closed when changing gear under acceleration. i.e. upwards and leave it open. During deceleration with the throttle plate (twist grip) closed, as would normally be the case, the system blips the throttle. This is page 115 in my UK manual. So the clutchless criteria is that when accelerating you don't have to close the throttle and when decelerating the throttle needs to be closed.

    The confusing bit in the same manual, page 96, is 'assists upshifts and downshifts without the rider having to disengage the clutch or close the throttle'. N.B. This isn't saying that you can do downshifts with an open throttle. What isn't said here is that the throttle is assumed (and needs to be) closed when decelerating and changing down. In a situation where you want to change down and the throttle is open, i.e. uphill and labouring, Shift assist won't work. For the ECU to initiate an auto blip on a downshift it needs to see a closed throttle, the clutch lever out and pressure on the shift lever.

    I'm guessing that the newest R1200RS's have the same words in two places in their manual.

    I think I'm on top of it now, and I always was before I confused myself for a bit.

    Peter
     
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  18. Brimstone Mahone

    Brimstone Mahone Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't worry much about trying to figure out what the manual "really" says. Just get out on the bike and see what works/doesn't work. IF your bike "needs" the throttle to be closed for the GASP to downshift correctly, then it does. If it doesn't, then it doesn't! :)

    I just assumed from the marketing hype that my RS was supposed to be able to make clutchless up/down shifts with no action on my part other than punching/lifting the lever. And it does. Maybe if I had read the manual and tried to follow it, it wouldn't! :)
     
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  19. ranette

    ranette Active Member

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    I rarely use the gear shift assist for downshifting; for the most part I just don't like the feeling of it. However, for quickly accelerating, such as when getting on to a major highway, I love it.
     
  20. Richard230

    Richard230 Well-Known Member Contributor

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    My recollection is that the 2015 "standard" R/RS models (if there was ever such a thing), offered clutchless upshifts, but the not the GASP (Pro) feature, that you get charged extra for, which also allows cutchless downshifting. On my 2015 RS, with the GASP option, if I don't completely close the throttle the system will not auto blip and you get a big bang and lurch when you downshift (especially between second and first gear) that will really shake you up. Doing that once or twice will definitely remind you to keep the throttle shut when downshifting using the GASP system - at least that is the way it is on my early-build RS.
     
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