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Gear shift assist - not smooth downgearing when trying to gain power

Discussion in 'General R1200RS Discussions' started by Sterobman, Sep 26, 2017.

  1. Sterobman

    Sterobman New Member

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    I find the gear shift assist is easy when upshifting. Keep the throttle on and it powers into each gear easily. However, when down shifting using gear shift assist to gain power when, say, going up a hill, I find it is not smooth. The Manual says to back off the throttle completely when using Gear Shift Assist Pro to drop a gear, but you loose too much momentum if surging up a hill and downgearing to gain more power. The gear shift becomes jolty. Please comment and advise the sequencing to make this work properly.
     
  2. Peter Burridge

    Peter Burridge Well-Known Member Contributor

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    You do need to shut the throttle for the shift assist to function going down the box. This is an instance where a down shift with the clutch, the old fashioned way (that I use most of the time anyway) is what you need :)
     
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  3. Leon.P.

    Leon.P. Well-Known Member

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    If you have time. Back the throttle off. If you'r in a hurry use the clutch. There is a sweet spot in between which you need to work on. Good luck.:)
     
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  4. oscarguitar

    oscarguitar Well-Known Member

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    It's 'shift assist' not an automatic gearbox. It works well within certain parameters. Banging it down a gear when accelerating ain't one of them. The accessory on the front left of the bar you hold onto can be helpful in those situations I believe.
     
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  5. dkjkwood

    dkjkwood Member

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    Sterobman,
    I've been very unimpressed with the shift assist. Sometimes it works great, sometimes it's clunky as all get out.
    I've gotten to the point that I don't use it very often, much smoother using the clutch in most situations.

    Dave
     
  6. roger coleman

    roger coleman Well-Known Member

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    I find if I back off the thrust a tad, it drop down smoothly, like a derailleur, you just need to take pressure off the drive chain. Also works best, up and down at high rpm, at low RPM it is always jerky. so something there is a need to use the clutch, after a while you work out a strategy that works for you.
     
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  7. Peter Burridge

    Peter Burridge Well-Known Member Contributor

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    I think it's more than just taking the load off the drive Roger. The ECU needs to have certain conditions met to do the auto blip thing. Those conditions would seem to be pressure on the lever (in the correct direction) and a shut (or perhaps a nearly shut) throttle.

    I don't use shift assist often for a couple of reasons. I've ridden too many years without it and I forget its there. Also I can change slightly smoother (but not faster) 90% of the time. I use it downshifting when I think about it and entirely for the fun of it (the auto blipper and a Remus) and I always use it to upshift on an overtake, for the speed.

    I suppose what I'm saying is that for me I see little benefit, other than during an overtake.

    Peter
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
  8. roger coleman

    roger coleman Well-Known Member

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    Im sure you are right Peter, whatever I am doing I get all the blips, in all the right places, sounds glorious too.
    I use the shift assist all the time even down into 1st, but takes more care to do smoothly. Im usually only on the clutch trickling through traffic.
     
  9. Bazza Beemer

    Bazza Beemer Well-Known Member

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    I am with Peter's comments. But I use mine a lot of the time in town even mix and match from GSA to using clutch from perhaps one shift to another. And yes... you have to have the throttle completely closed and hand/fingers completely off the clutch or she gets messy - as in shifting non-GSA bike down with no clutch. Also change down coming down through 4000rpm minimum. Love the factory blip coming up to cars at the lights who have their windows down. It is the same as getting off your bike on to an older 60's Triumph etc with RH gear shift - you have to plan the gear changes until you get used to it.
     
  10. ray2

    ray2 Well-Known Member Contributor

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    Actually, not true - at least for my bike. The manual notes that the downshift only requires that the downshift not take you above the rev limiter.
    This has also been my experience.
    Peter's a better practiced rider than most. As a lazier guy, I found the more I used the shift assist, the better it (or I) worked.

    As I've noted elsewhere, it makes me feel like a pro - shifting down into turns and screaming out of them, but I'm sure all my hard earned clutch, brake, and throttle-blipping skills are going down the tube.

    Here's content from a recent thread. http://r1200rsforums.com/threads/new-owner-with-a-few-questions.4525/#post-69246

    Thoughts from the manual - which after 2 years, I am still re-reading.
    No shifting support is provided in the following situations:

    • If the clutch is operated
    • If the gear lever is not in the zero position
    • When upshifting with the throttle closed (overrun mode) or when decelerating
    • Idling.
    To be able to make another gear shift using Pro Gear Shift Assistant, the gear lever must be fully released after the first gear change.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Leon.P.

    Leon.P. Well-Known Member

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    Earlier on I found that I could hit neutral going from 3 to 2 but this would never happen when I was concentrating. So for along time my concentration on the shift was needed. I have done enough KLm not to need to thing about the shifts. The Pro Shift seems to work better if you are riding as though you have just stolen the bike rather than going slow and gentle except from 1 into 2. I change up early at gentle acceleration( almost None) and that gets rid of that lurch. Rest of the gears just go for it. The neutral problem from 3 to 2 was ALWAYS at SLOW SPEEDS,almost at idle. Never happens when I'm on the move. Hope this helps but its just lots of practice and concentration. Good luck. Leon:)
     
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  12. Brimstone Mahone

    Brimstone Mahone Well-Known Member

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    I just shift whenever I want to shift without doing anything with the clutch or throttle. As I stated in another post on this subject, the wide variety of experiences makes me wonder if the bikes themselves have different parameters based on model year/current software or something similar.
    OR...
    Maybe the different "experiences" are more based on expectations. IOW, perhaps some folks are expecting a smooth car-like automatic transmission kind of shift. To me the GASP bike shift feels just like clutchless shifts always felt when shifting up or down. You just don't have to do any work - no slight power reduction up or "manual" rev matching down.

    I have found that NOT helping at all - no rolling throttle off or on, just pushing/pulling the gear lever is all that is necessary. Obviously you need the clutch for starting/stopping but that's all I ever use it for now...unless I forget. ;)
     
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  13. Sterobman

    Sterobman New Member

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    Thanks for the feedback guys. Seems there is variances within the feedback on this function. Like i commented earlier, upshifting is a delight using the GSA. i'll need to work on the downshifting.
     
  14. Grumpy Goat

    Grumpy Goat Well-Known Member Contributor

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    Sounds like a good plan.

    There is a bit of coordination training involved and that comes with use. I am like Brimstone Mahone in that I don't recall doing anything special while shifting up or down, I just do it and as fast as I like. Downshifting is always faster for me and I can blip them off as fast as my angle can flex. There is only one thing to do when downshifting - the throttle has to be closed (or I suspect, on the closing process, i.e. rotating forward). I cannot be in a constant position and if increasing the lever would not shift.

    Likewise, with upshifting, the throttle has to be constant or in the opening process, i.e. rotating backward. If closing, the lever will not budge. Once you get these actions committed to muscle memory it comes naturally and you do it without thinking.

    It is a quickshifter after all, and it is intended to be used a certain way, usually while aggressively riding the bike. With my bike the more aggressive the better it seems to work.
     
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  15. Jeroen1969

    Jeroen1969 Well-Known Member

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    I had the 3->2 ends up in Neutral under all sorts of conditions... concentrated or not, high speed as well as low speed... Swapping that bike for a new 2017 model solved the problem: flawless QS behaviour.
    The manual also says this QS technique will cover around 70 to 80% of required shifts. The condition described in the opening of this thread seems to be one of the other 20 to 30%...
     
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  16. Jeroen1969

    Jeroen1969 Well-Known Member

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    My wife does not do that much motor cycle riding... Yet she intuitively knows how to work around the QS gadget as she reports it to work "very smooth". Last character typification I would use to describe my wives riding style would be "aggresive"... "leasure like" would more accurately describe her as rider...
     
  17. MrVvrroomm

    MrVvrroomm Well-Known Member

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    The manual states very clearly how to use GSAP. Read it, don't read anything else into it.
    Shift up = throttle ON
    Shift down = throttle OFF
    GSAP does not make your BMW's gearbox an automatic.
    If you didn't have GSAP would you downshift with the throttle open?
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
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  18. Grumpy Goat

    Grumpy Goat Well-Known Member Contributor

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    Exactly! Could not have put it better myself, especially the last sentence. :)
     
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  19. MrVvrroomm

    MrVvrroomm Well-Known Member

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    I think it's a Granite Gray thing :)
     
  20. Peter Burridge

    Peter Burridge Well-Known Member Contributor

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    Well, on reading my manual it definitely states that you need to shut the throttle to downshift sans clutch with shift assist. Practice in the real world bears this out. Using the clutch I often don't blip the throttle but just set the revs high.
     

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